Ukrajina - sraz dva svijeta

[El Re]

Dejvid Kameron (britanski premijer) u obraćanju Donjem domu Parlamenta:
PM: We must stand up to aggression, uphold international law & support Ukrainian govt & the Ukrainian people's freedom to choose own future.

The Prime Minister gave a statement to the House of Commons about last week’s emergency European Council on Ukraine.



With permission, Mr Speaker, I would like to make a statement on last week’s emergency European Council.
What has happened to Ukraine is completely indefensible. Its territorial integrity has been violated and the aspirations of its people to chart their own future are being frustrated.
This European Council sent a clear and united message to Russia that its actions are in flagrant breach of international law and will incur consequences. We agreed on a three-phase approach to stand up to this aggression and uphold international law: first, some immediate steps to respond to what Russia has done; secondly, urgent work on a set of measures that will follow if Russia refuses to enter dialogue with the Ukrainian Government; and thirdly, a set of further, far-reaching consequences should Russia take further steps to destabilise the situation in Ukraine.
Let me say a word on each of those steps. First, as a response to what Russia has already done, we agreed on some immediate steps. We have suspended preparations for the G8 in Sochi indefinitely. As I told the House last week, my view is that it would be completely wrong for a G8 summit to go ahead at all under current circumstances. We decided to stop work on a comprehensive new agreement on relations between Russia and the European Union, and we immediately suspended the talks that were under way on a more liberal visa regime in the Schengen area—the thing that Russian Ministers and business delegations have pushed for more than anything else.
Here in Britain, I have ordered an urgent review of all Government business with Russia. We have already announced that no Ministers or members of the royal family will visit the Sochi Paralympics. Many other planned ministerial-level contacts will be cancelled in current circumstances. All bilateral military co-operation is under review, with the presumption that we will suspend it, except for work carried out to fulfil international treaty obligations, such as European arms control inspections. I have ordered a review of licences for arms exports to Russia. It is hard to see how anything that could be used in Ukraine could be justified. As with other measures, it is best if possible to take these decisions in concert with our European allies.
There has been intense work to persuade Russia to come to the negotiating table with the Government of Ukraine and to discuss its stated concerns face to face. The idea of such a contact group, including other countries and organisations, was one I first proposed to the Polish Prime Minister back in January. The European Council agreed it was essential for such talks to start within the next few days and for them to deliver progress quickly. We also agreed that if Russia did not co-operate there would need to be further measures—the so-called second phase—which would need to start rapidly.
Therefore, at my instigation, the Council tasked the European Commission to begin work on additional measures which could be taken against Russia if these talks do not get going or do not start producing results. These will include asset freezes and travel bans. We are working closely with our American, European and other international partners to prepare a list of names, and these sanctions, plus the measures already agreed against Yanukovych and his circle, will be the focus of a meeting here in London tomorrow with key international partners.
There is an urgent need to de-escalate tension in Crimea. We are all clear that any referendum vote in Crimea this week will be illegal, illegitimate and will not be recognised by the international community. In addition, I have to say that any campaign would be completely impractical as well as illegal. There is no proper register or proper campaign, and the territory is covered with troops. It is completely impossible for a proper referendum campaign to be carried out. As I discussed with Chancellor Merkel last night in Hanover, Russia can choose the path of de-escalation by signalling it understands that the outcome cannot be acted on as legitimate. Chancellor Merkel and I were clear that any attempt by Russia to legitimise an illegal referendum would require us to respond by ratcheting up the pressure further.
Thirdly, and most significantly, we agreed that it was essential to stop Russia taking further unacceptable steps in Ukraine. The Council agreed that if further steps are taken by Russia to destabilise Ukraine, there will be additional and far-reaching consequences for the relationship between the Russian Federation on the one hand and the European Union and its member states on the other. The Council conclusions state that these consequences would “include a broad range of economic areas.”
Britain played a leading role in helping to reach this agreement, including through a meeting I convened with fellow leaders from France, Germany, Italy and Poland on the morning of the Council. Such sanctions would have consequences for many EU member states, including Britain, but as I argued at the meeting, the costs of not standing up to aggression are far greater. Britain’s own security and prosperity would be at risk if we allow a situation where countries can just flout international rules without incurring consequences.
Finally, we decided to send a political message of support to the Ukrainian Government and people. The interim Ukrainian President spoke at the European Council with great power and force. The Ukrainian people want the freedom to be able to choose their own future and strengthen their ties with Europe, and they want a future free from the awful corruption that they have endured for far too long.
At the request of the Ukrainian Prime Minister, we therefore agreed to bring forward the signing of the political part of the EU’s association agreement with Ukraine, and we agreed to help Ukraine tackle corruption. The EU has now frozen the assets of 18 people linked to the former regime, and Britain has deployed a team to Kiev from our National Crime Agency to help the new Ukrainian Government go after ill-gotten funds and return them to the Ukrainian people.
It is now vital that Ukraine proceeds towards free and fair elections that enable all Ukrainians, including Russian speakers and minorities, to choose their leaders freely, so Britain is now providing substantial and immediate technical assistance to Ukraine to support elections and assist with reforms on public finance management, debt management and energy pricing. Ukraine also needs support to stabilise and repair its economy. The EU agreed unilaterally to lower trade tariffs, and to work with the International Monetary Fund on a package of financial assistance to the Ukrainian Government.
As I agreed with President Obama during our call this weekend, there is still an opportunity for Russia to resolve this situation diplomatically. It should engage in direct talks with the Ukrainians, return Russian troops to their bases in Crimea, withdraw its support for this illegal and unconstitutional referendum in Crimea, and work with the rest of the international community to support free and fair elections in Ukraine in May. No one should be interested in a tug of war. Ukraine should be able to choose its own future and act as a bridge between Russia and Europe.
Britain’s own future depends on a world where countries obey the rules. In Europe, we have spent the past 70 years working to keep the peace, and we know from history that turning a blind eye when nations are trampled over stores up greater problems for the longer term. (ovo boldovano je jasna aluzija Kamerona, tj. usporedba sadašnje situacije i popuštanja Hitleru 1938. oko okupacije dijela Čehoslovačke, tj., njegov stav da bi popuštanje sada, baš kao i Hitleru onda, podiglo apetite agresoru i brzo donijelo samo veće probleme).
We must stand up to aggression, uphold international law and support the Ukrainian Government and the Ukrainian people, who want the freedom to choose their own future. That is right for Ukraine, right for Europe, right for Britain. I commend this statement to the House.

Ed Miliband (vođa opozicije - Labour party) ne samo da je u ime opozicije podržao Vladu, već je zahtijevao i da bude odlučnija u svojim koracima suprotstavljanju ruskoj agresiji.
"We must apply maximum pressure on Russia. Hesitancy or weakness from the EU will send the wrong message."

[A+A]

Nisto novo od Janukovica:
- Jeste li zaboravili sto je fasizam?
- Nisam pobjegao. Tijekom izvrsenja drzavnog udara boravio sam u Ukrajini. Kasnije sam bio prinudjen napustit zemlju zbog opasnosti za moj zivot. Uskoro cu natrag u Ukrajinu.
- Iduce predsjednicke izbore su nezakonite.
- Uputit cu apele Donjem i Gornjem Domu Kongresa te Vrhovnom Sudu SAD zbog najavlenih planova Vlade SAD za financiranje nezakonitog rezima u Ukrajini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...qaxcDdo#t=1821

[Recordare88]

- Uputit cu apele Donjem i Gornjem Domu Kongresa te Vrhovnom Sudu SAD zbog najavlenih planova Vlade SAD za financiranje nezakonitog rezima u Ukrajini.

Hahahahahahahha. Poceo je kao oni iz Bjelopavlica sto su pisali pismo Staljinu

[Recordare88]

http://espreso.tv/new/2014/03/11/par..._nezalezhnosti

Krim i formalno proglasio nezavisnost.

[RoNN|3]

PM: We must stand up to aggression, uphold international law & support [Ukrainian] govt & the [Ukrainian] people's freedom to choose own future

, except when our friends are the agressors.

[Vlado]

[A+A]

We must stand up to aggression, uphold international law and support the Ukrainian Government and the Ukrainian people, who want the freedom to choose their own future.

Kaze netko tko ima pravo na apsolutnu istinu i isklucivo pravo tumacenja pojma "freedom" :lolblue:
Mada meni to vise lici na nesto pored "You are free to choose any future for yourselves, as long as it's not something we don't want you to choose" :wink:

[El Re]

Nešto oko intervencija, pošto se svako-malo oko toga podstiče priča...

Za one koji ne znaju Rusija je zažmurila i nije se protivila udarima NATO po Mladićevoj hordi 1994. i 1995. Zauzvrat Zapad je zažmurio na obračunavanje Rusije čelikom i ognjem u Čečeniji i formiranjem paradržave Transinistrie u Moldaviji.
1999., tokom intervencije NATO u SRJ Rusija se zvanično izjasnila protiv, no u stvarnosti nije prstom mrdnula. Naprotiv, Rusi su bili najmarljiviji u posjetama Beogradu tokom rata, pritišćući Miloševića da što prije pristane na uslove. Černomirdin je čak tokom jednog od razgovora u maju 1999. Miloševiću rukom pobacao stvari sa stola i slikovito mu pojasnio da će ako ne pristane Srbija biti bombama poravnjena kao ploča stola za kojim su sjedjeli.
Po potpisivanju Kumanovskog sporazuma (kojim je u junu okončan rat) Rusi su se na nekoliko transportera provozali do Prištine, prvi ušli u grad, ali odmah iz njega poslušno izašli čim je to NATO od njih zatražio. Nestali su odatle nečujno ko priviđenja. Zašto? Zato što to nije bilo dogovoreno između Zapada i Rusije i Rusi su poštovali pravila igre.
Za one koji ne znaju Rusija je otvoreno i jasno podržala intervenciju SAD u Avganistanu 2001. Nema "ali".Tačka. Najviše iz razloga osvete za poraz Rusa koji se dogodio u Avganistanu 1987., nakon višegodišnje ruske avanture. Poraza koji je Rusima nanijet od tih istih talibana.
Nije to bio jedini razlog, ali jeste glavni. Drugi razlog bio je strah od širenja talibanske zaraze u proruskim islamskim državama centralne Azije.
Rusija nije NATO intervenciju u Avganistanu samo podržala, već i pomogla na sve načine, a prije svega tako što je posredovala da Uzbekistan i Tadžikistan (oba u ruskoj sferi) dozvole upotrebu njihovih aerodroma za potrebe vojske Zapada, pa čak i "oposlili" da Uzbeci Amerikancima dozvole i privremeno otvaranje nekoliko baza na teritoriji Uzbekistana. Nijesu se tu Rusi zaustavili. Pomogli su Amerikance da ostvare kontakt sa uzbečkom manjinom u Avganistanu koja je u početku intervencije bila osnova antitalibanskih oružanih snaga.
Za svo vrijeme misije u Avganistanu nafta se NATO saveznicima (za ogroman ratni stroj) prodaje iz uzbekistanskih i ruskih rafinerija.

Za one koji ne znaju Rusija se zvanično usprotivila intervenciji zapadnih saveznika u Iraku (2003.) ali je zapravo intervenciju pozdravila, obzirom da je to podglo cijenu nafte, značajno uvećalo potražnju za naftom koju Rusija proizvodi i prodaje i podstaklo sirijski režim (i još neke) da naprasno počnu kupovati oružje od Rusije i otvore sirijske luke za ruske brodove. Tako je svako dobio po nešto...
Suštinski na "ćutanje" Rusije u Iraku Zapad je "drugarski" uzvratio "ćutanjem" prilikom intervencije Rusije u Gruziji 2008. i popuštanjem pritiska na Bjelorusiju, koja je preko noći nestala sa zapadnih medija ni da se odjednom tamo pojavio kakav uzoran demokratski režim. U ime tog "drugarstva" Rusi nijesu ni zaškrgutali zubima kada je Kosovo 2008. proglasilo nezavisnost... Rusi su se ponijeli džentlmenski i pravili da se to desilo neđe na Tihom okeanu.
Na "ćutanje" oko Gruzije, Rusija (Putin) će uzvratiti podrškom Rusije u UN-u kada je 2011. (Rezolucijom UN-a) odobreno američko-francusko nadlijetanje Libije i udari po snagama "koje ugrožavaju civile".

Dakle, priča o "jednostranim" intervencijama daleko je od istine. Uvijek je postojala jedna ili druga forma saglasnosti ili međusobne trgovine. Sve do sada.

Naravno, nijesam uključio intervencije tokom perioda Hladnog rata, koje su i jedna i druga sila (bez razlike) provodile u vremenu kada su zaiste bile uporedive snagom svog oružja i političkom moći u Svijetu...
One to odavno nijesu.

[Recordare88]

Jedan od finih, elegantnih nacina da se Putinovom rezimu naglasi da mora skalati na Krimu bi bio da se zaprijeti da ce se Rusija (slicno SR Jugoslaviji 1992) izbaciti iz sportskih takmicenja i da ce joj se oduzeti organizacija Svjetskog prvenstva u fudbalu 2018, na koju je vec potrosila nekoliko stotina milona eura.

[Domaćin]

Nije humano zauzimati se za sve "demonstrante" u Kijevu, kada je očito da tamo ima i priličan broj monstruma podstaknutih životinjsko-ideološkim porivima!

Kijevski "demonstranti" spaljuju policajce


Veliki i hrabri "borci za slobodu", brutalno su pretukli čovjeka s palicama dok je ležao na zemlji
<a href="http://scgnews.com/videos-from-ukraine-that-the-us-media-will-never-show-you" target="_blank">

[jaskov]

Dva različita mišljenja:
1. Rusi otimaju Krim, Srbiji otimaju Kosovo.
2. Krim se pripaja Rusiji, Republika Srpska se pripaja Srbiji.
Zvanična Srbija protiv Dodika.

[A+A]

"Poziv na protupravno djelovanje sa ciljom krsenja teritorijalnog integriteta i suverenosti Ruske Federacije kaznjava se s 5 godina zatvora"
Krivicni zakonik Ruske Federacije, clanak 280-1 (USVOJEN 28. PROSINCA 2013.) :lolblue::lolblue::lolblue:

[Domaćin]

"Poziv na protupravno djelovanje sa ciljom krsenja teritorijalnog integriteta i suverenosti Ruske Federacije kaznjava se s 5 godina zatvora"
Krivicni zakonik Ruske Federacije, clanak 280-1 (USVOJEN 28. PROSINCA 2013.) :lolblue::lolblue::lolblue:

[A+A]

Dva različita mišljenja:
1. Rusi otimaju Krim, Srbiji otimaju Kosovo.
2. Krim se pripaja Rusiji, Republika Srpska se pripaja Srbiji.
Zvanična Srbija protiv Dodika.

Srbija se ne takmici u visoj ligi dakle za nju ne vazi takva argumentacija. Quod licet ...
PS Protiv sam bilo koje agresije i "pripajanja".

[jaskov]

Iz srbijanske štampe:
http://www.kurir-info.rs/ambasada-uk...clanak-1259725

[Hari Krisna]

Jedan od finih, elegantnih nacina da se Putinovom rezimu naglasi da mora skalati na Krimu bi bio da se zaprijeti da ce se Rusija (slicno SR Jugoslaviji 1992) izbaciti iz sportskih takmicenja i da ce joj se oduzeti organizacija Svjetskog prvenstva u fudbalu 2018, na koju je vec potrosila nekoliko stotina milona eura.

Gadno će se Putko naśekirati zbog toga a do te godine Krim će igrati zvanicne utakmice kao nezavisna drzava. Medjunarodna utakmica Krim - Kosovo pod geslom medjunarodna politika duplih arsina.

[A+A]

"HEIM INS REICH!" (c)


PS
In Afrika die Negerlein,
Sie rufen alle gleich:
Wir wollen deutsche Neger sein.
Wir wollen heim ins Reich! (c)
Je li tako?

[getaway blues]

Mihail Dobkin, doskora guverner Harkova, juče uhapšen zbog separatizma. Podržao ga danas Rinat Ahmetov, najbogatiji Ukrajinac... Sad svi pokušavaju nekako da balansiraju i pozicioniraju se... Slabo šta se kroz tu maglu vidi.

[Jakuza]

Pa nije to SR Jugoslavija da im se uvode sankcije, naravno da se Rusiji nista ne moze, kao sto se ne moze ni SAD-u. Ovo je odlicno, pa da brzo i Spanci ostanu bez dobrog dijela zemlje, mozda i Belgijanci, a i da BiH bude mirnije mjesto.

Inace Putinu puca i za milijarde eura, lik je ulozio u ZOI 51 milijardu, moze mu se jbg.

[A+A]

Mihail Dobkin, doskora guverner Harkova, juče uhapšen zbog separatizma. Podržao ga danas Rinat Ahmetov, najbogatiji Ukrajinac... Sad svi pokušavaju nekako da balansiraju i pozicioniraju se... Slabo šta se kroz tu maglu vidi.

A i gradonacelnik Harkiva Genadij Kernes danas je dobio poziv tuzilastva Ukrajine.

[jaskov]

Zamislite ovo:
Kosovo se ujedini sa Albanijom.
Krim se ujedini sa Rusijom.

[opmne]

Prilikom povlacenja sovjetske vojske iz evropskih drzava dogovor je bio da te drzave nece ulaziti u nato, da ce se nato povuci ukoliko se rasformira varsavski pakt. Ovo sad nijesu Jeljcin i Gorbacov da otvore vrata Moskve nato raketama svojom popustljivoscu, zapad je prema Rusiji pokazao da mu se ne moze vjerovati. Neka zapadni politicari prijete sankcijama, neka nato seta brodove, avione i ostalu vojnu tehniku to Rusiju nece odvratiti od zastite sebe same, ako puste istocnu Ukrajinu predali su i Moskvu

[Glenn_Q]

Mislim da je krajnje vrijeme da Crna Gora uvede sankcije Rusiji!

[Jakuza]

Second that!

[Jakuza]

Ne moze cijeli svijet da preteze na jednu stranu. Sve je u balansu. Putin upravo balansira ovu nasu predivnu planetu, barem malo joj vraca ravnotezu.